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Make the call, bring Khadr home

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February 4,2010

The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed Jan. 29, 2010 that Canadian officials had violated Omar Khadr's constitutional rights. In a unanimous decision the Supreme Court has now left it up to the federal government whether to ask the United States to return Omar Khadr to Canada.

Omar Khadr is a young man who has spent the past eight years of his life as a prisoner in Guantanamo Bay Prison in Cuba. Seriously wounded at the time of his arrest he was taken to Bagram Prison Hospital. It was reported that he was subjected to approximately 40 interrogations, eight hours each time, in the first three months at the hospital. He was then sent to Guantanamo Bay where he has endured every type of horrible torture that prison practices.

Omar Khadr's Canadian attorneys Dennis Edney and Nathan Whitling continue to fight on his behalf.

At 15 years of age at the time of his capture he would be considered a child soldier under the United Nations convention.

The Conservative Government and Stephen Harper refuse to repatriate Omar Khadr. Why? Is this young man, a Canadian Citizen, such a threat to anyone? Where is the compassion? The respect for human rights? Does this government lack this kind of caring for one of it's own citizens?

All it would take is one phone call from one prime minister to one United States president for one young Canadian citizen to come home where he rightfully belongs.

C. SWAN

Kamloops

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menthelius says...

"Alfonso" I certainly don't disagree with your interpretation of the US military's holding of little Omar, it does seem to be a miscarriage of justice, but again WHY should we care about little Omar's rights? In my opinion, anyone who violates another person's rights, effectively give up their own rights! Little Omar killed another human being, that is pretty much the ultimate in denying someone their basic right to live.

I also agree with your statement about others putting words in your mouth, I have some experience with other posters doing the exact thing to myself!

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 10:32 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241315

Alfonso says...

You're right Menthelius, and that goes back to my original point. His parents trained him to hate, and I don't think that torturing that child will prevent any terrorist activity from happening. Unfortunately, in this specific case, it'll probably hurt our soldiers more than help them :(

(don't get me wrong, I'm not even sure I disagree with some of the 'interrogation' methods. Getting information when there is information to get is vital to the safety of our proud soldiers, I just don't think they're getting much out of a 15 year old.)

Even at the age of 15, he is responsible for his actions here in Canada. It is usually the punishment that changes for minors, not the fact of them being responsible or not. We should be seeking extradition to convict him of his crimes against OUR country. Unfortunately, he is currently NOT being tried by the US justice system. He is being punished by the US military, on foreign soil, because even in the US you cannot jail/torture a person for 8 years without taking them to court.

For those of you putting words in my mouth trying to make it sound like I am trying to defend his actions, please keep it to yourself. Express your own opinion, stop pretending to express mine.

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 10:21 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241310

Alfonso says...

lol, why would I go to the Middle East, there is obviously still much work to be done here at home :(

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:51 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241303

menthelius says...

"Alfonso" I respect your opinion, I even agree with the issue about the death penalty!

Generations of my family have also served this country proudly, what service has little Omar's family ever done? Little Omar's family has publicly condemned our way of life, trained their children to hate and kill others who disagree with them.

As for the Supreme Court of Canada, they quite properly threw the issue back to the politicians! No matter what ANY of us believe, the laws of Canada do NOT apply to other countries! A tragic shame I agree, but that is reality! Little Omar was arrested by the US soldiers for a crime against them, little Omar MUST face the US justice system if we truly respect international laws.

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:50 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241302

ibuprofen says...

Alfonso,

You’re an idiot. If you’re truly passionate about human rights, get out from behind your computer, go to the Middle East and put your mouth and passion to good use.

Action speaks louder then words.

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:40 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241298

Alfonso says...

I'm not just speaking my opinion. I'm speaking about the rights that I was born with (not just 'privileged' to have). My family has fought for generations to ensure that i was born with these rights that you are so quick to ignore. I don't care who he killed. A CF's life is no more (and definitely no less) important than anyone else's. I believe that you are not 'better' than me, and I am not 'better' than you. The point I am trying to make is that you don't know any better than I whether or not he killed anyone! I never said I thought he was innocent. Read a little closer before you resort to profanity and name-calling please. I think he probably did do it!!! If we can prove he did it, he should never see the light of day! I'm even all for bringing back the death penalty. But, that would make it even more important than ever to PROVE you have CONVICTED the right person. If it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm all for harsher punishment.

Menthelius, the "WE" I refer to includes the Supreme Court of Canada. Do you want their names, or do you just think that they are a bunch of liberal softies too?

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:36 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241296

factchecker21 says...

Alfonso;

You talk about human rights and sharing them with the rest of the world but discount trying to help the women who are tortured and abused in other countries. Instead, you want to help a traitor to our nation, a traitor who would think nothing of torturing and killing our own soldiers, a traitor who is trying to spread hatred and abuse of all others not like him and of women. Once you speak of human rights, the two issues become connected. If you want to express outrage about how another nation is treating someone, think about these women, not about a traitor.

This traitor you are so fond of and other terrorists like him are the reason we are loosing our freedoms, our way of life. And under Canadian law, he is guilty of treason.

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:33 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241293

menthelius says...

"Alfonso" by the way, who is the "WE" you are always refering to? Do you speak for a group of people, do you have names, or are you simply trying to impose your opinion on others by distorting the truth?

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:13 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241281

menthelius says...

"Alfonso" what planet are you from? Does everyone wear shiny tinfoil hats where you come from?

Honestly, do you think Canada should be all over the world enforcing these "human rights" you claim are so important to you? Guess what, CF troops are all over the world trying to enforce basic human rights! Do you support our troops abroad, or are you another one of the bleeding heart libs that say we shouldn't be in anyone else's country?

If little Omar had killed a CF soldier, would you still say the little b*****d was innocent?

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:11 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241280

Alfonso says...

dear ibuprofen,

How dare you say I am badmouthing Canadian ways! I am standing up for them! Last I checked, here in Canada we are innocent until proven guilty. That may not be the case in whatever country you came from (in many other countries it is the burden of the accused to prove innocence, not like here where you have to be proven guilty), but that is one of the things that makes me proud to be Canadian. You can't catch all the guilty people, without accidentally catching some who were actually innocent. Therefore, you have to draw a line somewhere. Here in Canada, we believe that you have to let a few "probably guilty" people go free, so that you don't accidentally lock up the wrong person. Even where we've drawn our line, we still occasionally convict the wrong person! Ya, it really sucks when you've gotta let someone off when you are pretty sure they are guilty, but as a proud Canadian, I believe it is far worse to jail the wrong person (would you be happy with the system if you were jailed for life for a murder you didn't commit, while the real murderer is still out there killing people!?) Our military, police, and courts have a very difficult, and often frustating job, but if you truly believe we should put people in jail and/or torture them without proving they are guilty, then please give up your Canadian citizenship and move to the USA. Also, yes I am privileged to have Canadian and Human RIGHTS. Let's share these wonderful rights with the rest of the world, or at least try to enforce them for our own! Or do you believe you should have to become a Canadian citizen to deserve these rights, and you should lose them when you leave our beautiful country?

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 9:01 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241273

ibuprofen says...

Alfonso,

You’re an idiot. If you’re truly passionate about human rights, and the unjust ways for manipulating fully grow teenagers, then why don’t you get out from behind your computer, fly to the Middle East and put your passion and actions to good use??!

I don’t like traitor-hypocrites families that only think of Canada when they need free medical treatments after being shot-up and paralyzed from their holy jihad. Oh, wait a minute… why would someone who believes in the holy Muslim simple ways need to sue other Canadians for 10 million dollars? More cows and virgins?? Canada didn’t send them on their holy wars. The wrong place and wrong time scenario, have absolutely NO bearing on what happened to cute n’ cuddly little Omar Khadr. That was self-inflicted!

I myself wasn’t born in this beautiful country; I became a Canadian Citizen back in 1986. I know what sucks. And I know what’s awesome. Canada is awesome!! Being Canadian is a privilege, “Not a Right”. I am VERY sensitive towards anyone who bad mouth our Canadian ways and try to force feed me their screwed up religious views. If you don’t like our ways ... stay the fu*k home in your own country!

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 8:05 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241244

Alfonso says...

Also, do you think then that if a 40 year old man has sex with a 15 year old girl, she is old enough to decide? Probably not. But if it was a 30 year old woman, having sex with a 15 year old boy, I'm guessing you would give him a high five, lol.

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 7:27 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241234

Alfonso says...

dear factchecker,
How can us letting the US torture a 15 year old possibly prevent any harm coming to the women of any country? I am outraged by the torture of anyone! But I don't believe that we can help anyone else by breaking our own, and international, laws. Guantanamo has added heavy doses of fuel to the fire. Do you really think that 15 year old Khadr had information vital to the 'war on terrorism', and that after 8 years of torture and interogation he's suddenly going to come clean and divulge all the info needed to prevent women from burning them selves alive? Seriously, give your head a shake, lol

Posted on February 10, 2010 @ 7:20 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3241231

factchecker21 says...

Alfonso;

If you truly believe in human rights as you stated, then you should be outraged by the torture of women in countries such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey, etc. I don't hear anyone expressing rage at burying a 16 year old girl alive and letting her die like that. I don't hear anyone expressing outrage over the fact that many afghan woman are chosing to burn themselves rather than being forced into a marriage by their family. I don't hear anyone expressing outrage over women being doused with gasoline and set on fire in India. Why is this traitor eliciting your "outrage" and sympathy?

15 is old enough to make the choice as to whether to abstain or to try to kill your countrymen and women. He made the choice. He is a traitor.

Posted on February 9, 2010 @ 4:31 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3237604

Alfonso says...

Does the fact that he was 15 not matter to any of you racists? I have to wonder if it was a white canadian female that threw the grenade would you feel different? By some of your logic, children posing in child pornography are just as guilty as the adult sickos talking them into it! This kid was talked into joining the war. I don't care if he was fighting on the right or wrong side, he was a kid. Now, instead of rehabilitation, he's been tortured for 8 f'n years without even being convicted of a crime! Maybe, or even probably, he did it. But you don't know that, and I don't know that. I believe in HUMAN RIGHTS, not canadian rights. Let him have his day in court, like I would expect for any of you. If he's found guilty, then he can be jailed in whatever country he broke the law in, just like anyone else.

Posted on February 9, 2010 @ 3:26 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3237598

Sacha73 says...

Joey Jack,

Since you like to trumpet your superior knowledge, perhaps you should read the SCC's decision once again...Khadr's rights under Canadian law were violated. However, Canadian law does not apply outside of our borders. It's a concept referred to as the "Sovereignty of Nations". Our laws are no more applicable in the US as theirs are here.

Moreover, if you had read the decision, you would know that the S.C.C. decided that Parliament, not the courts, should have the final say when it comes to matters of international affairs.

Posted on February 8, 2010 @ 10:21 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3234137

marv says...

C.Swan, when Omar Khadr holds your head down with his foot and start cutting your head off because your white and the wrong religion, who will speak up for you??? Our Army's can't, they lost the war because of people like you!!!

Posted on February 8, 2010 @ 7:40 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3226366

menthelius says...

I see little Omar is suing the Canadian gov't for $10 million in "damages", isn't it funny that he is not suing the US gov't?

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 11:22 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3219006

Joey Jack says...

I won't feed trolls anymore.

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 6:28 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3215951

menthelius says...

"JoeyJack" I am informed and always shake my head at people like you, ignorance is bliss right?

Simply put, I do not agree with your opinion, you do not agree with mine, so be it! Someone once said to me "opinions are like a**h***s, everyone has one and some of them are full of s**t", stick that in your pipe and smoke it bub!

Quite honestly I don't like or enjoy people that are convinced their opinion is the only one that matters and everyone else is wrong. My opinion is based on facts and knowledge, I try to keep myself informed and open-minded to the possibility that info is sometimes lacking, thusly leading to misinformed statements. I think the case here is that you've read some highly edited statements, much like reading a headline in the newspaper and ass-uming you know everything in the article, and thus have made an uninformed decision. The beauty of our country is that you are allowed to do so! Ain't democracy great!

Really though, you don't want to comment anymore, great see you later!

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 2:49 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3212950

factchecker21 says...

Simply put, he is a traitor and, according to the crmininal code of canada, his crimes are punishable by imprisonment. I still say, leave him where he is, he made his choice and committed treason. Why should we expend any resources to help a traitor?

Incidentally, I wonder what he would have done to any Canadian soldiers he captured. Kill them? Torture them? Or give them a little slap on the wrist and let them go? Somehow I think torturing and killing would have been the route taken.

Get the picture. No sympathy for a traitor, especially not for one who tries to (and may have succeeded in) killing Canadian soldiers and/or their allies.

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 10:05 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3212863

Joey Jack says...

Sadly menthelius,

I'm almost nearly convinced you don't have knowledge of this case. You should read the letter we're commenting on. Then do a search.

His rights have been violated, the courts upheld the judgement.

It's hard to discuss these things with uninformed people. So I'll stop.

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 8:00 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3212822

menthelius says...

"Joey Jack" the facts are apparently very simple, little Omar is a murderer. Let the courts decide if his charter rights have been violated, personally I think he gave up those rights when he decided it was okay to kill others. Then again I'm not a judge, nor a prison guard, nor a lawyer (but I somehow doubt that you fill any of these qualifications either, eh?). As I said before, if little Omar is innocent then he's got a huge case against the gov't, but regardless let this thing go to the courts to decide. IF little Omar is innocent then he will have the chance to prove that in court ("what were you doing in Afghanistan Omar?" "picking flowers when these big men suddenly decided to arrest me your honor").

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 7:28 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3212809

Grouchy says...

12 Gauge and menthelius are right.The one thing that you arrogant,bleeding heart idiots are overlooking is the fact that CANADIAN LAWS DO NOT APPLY anywhere but in Canada.

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 7:25 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3212807

Joey Jack says...

This topic is very complicated.

Khadr's lawyer who was a US military man was fired from his job after "probes" into his conduct. Problem was, the guy who had a play in his reassignment and in charge of the probes was the co-defense council.

His lawyer, before being fired, had complained for a time that the co-council had been very vocal about wanting Khadr prosecuted and felt that this was a conflict.

Lawyer A complains about Lawyer B for having a conflict of interest.

Lawyer A gets the boot.

That's not looking like a fair shot.

Again, I think the law should be applied to this situation. The law states what a child soldier is. He's been mistreated which is against the Geneva conventions. We know that any info provided through "enhanced interrogation" amounts to squat (which is why they don't want him judged in a real court.) His Charter rights are being violated.

I don't know the stats on child soldiers in prison but I do know our government intervened in Mexico a few years ago to bring a Canadian woman charged with fraud home.

Apparently Mexican prison treatment is worse that Gitmo.

If a suspected terrorist does dastardly deeds, that doesn't give us the right to break the law right there next to him. I realize that the demogogues in the crowd smell the blood in the water and think we should just kill em all, and let God sort them out.

That's not my Canada.

You should take sometime to read beyond the talking points in support of letting this guy rot. I've followed this for a while and have taken the time to learn more about it.

I'm not so sure you've done the same.

We'll not agree on this. You should come guest on my radio show. Give you a chance to have a good live debate.

Posted on February 5, 2010 @ 7:16 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3212803

menthelius says...

Hip hip hooray! "12GaugePump" has preached the gospel to all you nay sayers and fence sitters! Little Omar killed US soldiers, our allies fighting beside our soldiers in the theater, little Omar has committed serious crimes and MUST be held to account ACCORDING TO THE LAW. Sorry if that pops your bubbles (not), but if you truly respect the law then let that law run its' course. IF little Omar is innocent than he has nothing to fear right? IF little Omar is innocent then he will sue the Canadian gov't and probably get millions. Seriously though I believe little Omar is a cold-hearted little b*****d to take the lives of others so callously and then beg the gov't to save him. Let him rot for the rest of his life in a US prison!

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 8:00 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3209358

12GaugePump says...

Disagree, Joey. Didn't the Supreme Court basically throw the ball back to the government ? If you don't condone the actions of the accused and think that the laws should be upheld, then why have you...and others.. called for his release ? There are Canadians imprisoned in many countries around the world for a wide variety of offenses and they are rotting there...why pick out just poor little Omar as your cause celebre ? Need I remind you Joey, that these people DID not and DO not respect the laws of THEIR country ( Canada )...which is why I called them "convenient Canadians". Speaking of respecting the courts...seems like you've already made up your mind, right ? If.as you say, as Canadians,we're supposed to respect people's freedom then WTF was this Canadian civilian doing in Afghanistan with the Taliban in a firefight with OUR allies...or is that evidence too shoddy ? As I said in my last post....nothing but contempt for you apologists and if we ever manage to get a Conservative majority in this country some things will change. This present situation of trying to serve 3 or 4 masters does not work.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 6:27 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3207561

Joey Jack says...

12guage.

I think it's unfair to paint anyone who is in support of national/international law as a sympathetic to the cause of the accused.

I don't condone the actions this young man was accused of comitting. We have laws in place which should be respected.

Minus all the blah blah blah I'm anticipating regarding this "evil doer" and his like minded brood, as Canadians we should look to the rule of law as being indivisible rather than pick and choose who we'll help and not help.

If you don't like the laws in Canada, petition the government to change them.

This mans family says terrible things, I agree, but in Canada we're supposed to respect peoples freedom.

If you don't beleive in freedom of thought for the people whose thoughts you despise, then you don't beleive in freedom.

The facts are, the evidence is shoddy, the tribunals are not fair, and the highest court in the land has said it's say.

Let's respect the courts.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 5:05 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204650

factchecker21 says...

And the girl buried ALIVE in Turkey by her fundamentalist muslim family for having allegedly befriended boys was only 16.

Sorry, I still do not sympathize with Khadr and still see him as engaging in treasonous behaviour. He had a choice, she did not.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 3:23 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204633

12GaugePump says...

Joey...I have nothing but contempt for apologists trying to justify poor little Omar's actions.His whole family of "convenient Canadians" should have been stripped of their citizenship and deported a long time ago. Since you want people to "clear the clouds"...google search the whole family history as well. FYI, Joey...being a "child soldier" doesn't mean you are deaf, dumb and stupid as well. For example...here in town, with the RMR's, at the tender age of 13 or 14, I was firing semi-auto assault rifles and learning how the military operates.You know what ?...we knew what was right and what was wrong."Poor little Omar" is far from being an "innocent".As menthellus so eloquently put it...ROT....especially when our people are dying for the Afghan people.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 2:53 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204623

Joey Jack says...

definition of child soldier:

A child soldier is any person under 18 years of age who is part of any kind of regular or irregular armed force or armed group in any capacity, including but not limited to cooks, porters, messengers and anyone accompanying such groups, other than family members. The definition includes girls recruited for sexual purposes and for forced marriage. It does not, therefore, only refer to a child who is carrying or has carried arms.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 2:13 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204614

Joey Jack says...

factchecker21 says...

Thanks Joey Jack;

Then, if he didn't kill any Canadians or Americans but was fighting for/with the "enemy", he is just guilty of treason, not high treason. Still a serious crime and punishable under Canadian law.

It still sounds to me like we should wash our hands of him. It's not like we have a lot of room in our jails as it is, we don't need to add one more when the Americans seem content to imprison him for us. Sorry, I just don't have any sympathy for him. Especially when I read about women being burned, buried alive, imprisoned, tortured, etc. in countries such as Afghanistan and its supporting groups/nations for what? Speaking to a boy? Not wanting to marry the man her family is forcing her to? Not covering herself from head to toe with hot material which makes visibility difficult? Etc.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 1:50 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204610

Joey Jack says...

He allegedly threw a grenade.

Last year leaked documents by the pentagon confirmed the at least 2 soldiers stated in interviews that he did not throw grenades.

He was also shot in the back, while on his knees.

A google search should clear the clouds.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 1:36 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204606

factchecker21 says...

I haven't been following this story so I have a couple of questions. If this fellow is a Canadian citizen who left Canada to fight against Canada (and our ally to the South in this conflict) then isn't he guilty of treason? And if he killed a Canadian or an American while committing treason, isn't that high treason?

So, if I understand what he did, either leave him in American hands and let them punish him or throw him in jail for the rest of his life here. Personally, I'm content to leave him where he is.

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 12:56 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3204598

Tack says...

I wonder if the reaction would have been different if the murdered soldier had been a Canadian?
Much as his detention in Guantanamo Bay was without legal basis he still deserves punishment.
More fittingly I would lock him up in solitary confinement and make him look at family photographs of the soldier he killed for the rest of his life.
Tack

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 11:38 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3204563

Grouchy says...

wow !!! You go menthelius ! Please do not hold back on us. Seriously though , I and many more agree with you 100%. These bleeding heart , save the criminal at all costs,but don't let him live in my neighborhood types make me want to puke !

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 11:35 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3204562

menthelius says...

Omar the child terrorist killed a US soldier with a grenade, forever denying that young soldier a life, forever denying that soldier's family of the enjoyment of his life! C.Swan asks where my compassion is? Where is C.Swan's intelligence? Omar's family (according to news stories when Omar was first captured) have taught their children to hate Canada, hate democracy, and hate their neighbours. Does C.Swan have hopes that Omar's family will move in next door? This little piece of garbage, after killing another human being because of religious disagreement, now asks Canada to help him? Omar spits on our flag, spits on our people, spits on our way of life, and then asks us for help when he's in trouble! Rot you little b*****d and may God have mercy on your soul, of course Omar does not believe in my God and thinks I'm a heretic deserving to die! Why would I want him back?

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 8:51 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3204491

12GaugePump says...

Where is your brain at Swan....the "kid" is an accused killer and hasn't been to trial yet. Do YOUR homework on his past....

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 8:17 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3204479

Grouchy says...

This "kid " killed US soldiers.He seems to have done it willingly. Why the hell should we bring him home where he will not be punished for his crimes ?

Posted on February 4, 2010 @ 7:07 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3204464

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