Saturday July 31, 2010

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  • Letters

     No ACC effigies at forum, please

    I discern a disconnect between the clamour for information about the Aboriginal Cogeneration project and the fact that no more than half-a-dozen citizens have sought a copy of the readily available document that sets out the facts about the expected air emissions from the ACC plant.

    That's what should be the main focus of public discussion. The nitty-gritty of the debate so to speak.

    Environment ministry permit 103943 spells out the nature and expected volume of air emissions, the type of emission suppression and control equipment, and how the ministry plans to monitor the operation.

    For a copy, email www.Dean.Jeske@gov.bc.ca or call 250-371-6333.

    If the March 11 public forum at TRU is to be something more than an environmentalist talkathon and an occasion to scold ACC president Kim Sigurdson for perceived misdemeanours, organizers should take steps to ensure that it lives up to its billing as an occasion for fact-finding.

    To this end, effigies of Mr. Sigurdson should be confiscated at the door and the forum chair should firmly restrain participations from making speeches instead of asking questions. Polemics are out.

    A fit watchword for the proceedings might be: "Just the facts, ma'am" — a famous catchphrase of the 1970s fondly remembered by devotees of the long-running TV police drama "Dragnet" and its hero Sgt. Joe Friday.

    STEPHEN TROWER

    Kamloops


    Comments

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    aged says...

    Hook, line and sinker. Antagonize to incite an argument. Some one is "mis-behalf-ing."

    Posted on March 9, 2010 @ 3:42 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428201 

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    EcoGirl says...

    I may comment on whatever is going on in PG when I have had time to look into it and do some research.

    Now, back to my desk...

    Posted on March 9, 2010 @ 12:36 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428179 

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    Moonriver says...

    No comment on the cover-up and failure to monitor in Prince George Ecogirl?

    Posted on March 9, 2010 @ 9:59 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3428165 

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    EcoGirl says...

    I live in Kamloops. Have for some time. I have family and friends who also live here. I work here. I pay taxes. I shop. I eat. I garden. I walk. I sometimes even ride my bike and get a coffee. I was even thinking about running for council until I went to the meeting in which Dr. Connett spoke and listened to the councellors and promptly changed my mind - it would be like banging my head against a wall for a living, and I do enough of that now. I don't live in a fancy new house in a nice new neighborhood, hope that's ok. Do you need my exact address, or is that good enough for you? If I didn't live here, why would I care? Why would I bother to post? I didn't always live here, I lived in Calgary and Westbank and Burnaby for awhile. Is that ok? Can I still have an opinion? Or did I have to have lived here all my life?

    Posted on March 9, 2010 @ 8:42 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3428144 

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    menthelius says...

    "moonriver" having reread your posts on this topic I find again that most of your "facts" are either somewhat inaccurate or out of date entirely, so again we are talking about a person's opinion and NOT straight facts.

    I don't disagree with you on this topic, there are questions that ACC needs to answer, but again for someone who claims "only the facts" these posts are woefully inadequate to back up your claim.

    Posted on March 9, 2010 @ 8:26 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3428139 

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    menthelius says...

    I said I spoke on behalf of civilized posters...

    Posted on March 9, 2010 @ 12:34 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3428117 

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    aged says...

    Speak for oneself before claiming to speaking for others.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 11:53 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428112 

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    aged says...

    OMG, CFJCTV touched on the Sunday Forum at TRU. Ten or twenty seconds and nary a full phrase from the NDP critic. Local televised news is a waste of Pattison money. Why does he pay these people?

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 11:18 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428108 

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    menthelius says...

    Hey "ecogirl" on behalf of all the civilized posters here I will say SORRY.

    I may disagree with something you said, or may say in the future, but I totally respect your right to voice an opinion and encourage you to do so!

    Public forums are so boring when everyone says the same thing.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 10:48 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428105 

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    menthelius says...

    Holy Crudites! I had to look up STFU! That is pretty rude on a public forum!

    All of us over-emotional people are expressing opinions, yours and mine are equal, we all have equal rights to express them.

    PLEASE SHOW SOME MATURITY.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 10:44 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428104 

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    aged says...

    PG is heavily industrialized with fourteen sawmills, two pulp and one twinned pulp mill, plywood manufacturers, a sodium chlorate plant, crude tall oil plant, oil refinery, plastics processing and mineral extraction service industries.

    Canfor is shutting down for maintenance and MOE is conducting another air quality study involving two other parties.

    So enough about PG because Kamloops does not compare. From the implementation of a little 'ol cogeneration plant slated to destruct a harmful man made product to the over indusrialized capital of BC, Kamloops leads in air quality. By a milestone.

    Stop invoking fear. Are you reading this Brian?

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 10:20 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3428101 

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    menthelius says...

    Anybody remember Walkerton? Citizens were not verbal enough in their complaining (or whining as some of you have said), questions went unanswered and ignored by the gov't and responsible parties.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 4:38 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3420785 

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    Moonriver says...

    Hey Eco-girl, care to comment on the cover up and failure to test by MOE in Prince George? Formeldehyde was tested at 20 times acceptable levels 18 months ago, not only did MOE not publicize their findings and alert the people, they would not re-test because it would cost $6000. A CBC journalist found out and blew the whistle. People had complained for years about the smell before the first test. Re-testing still has not been done and this is in a residential neighbourhood with a school and playground.
    MOE is underfunded and understaffed. Ethical scientists who speak out are mysteriously fired. How can we trust proper monitoring in Kamloops? If you trust MOE and ACC you are delusional or naive at best. You still won't say who you are or where you live. Interesting. I live and pay taxes in Kamloops.
    When industry is found to be at fault, enforcement is extremely weak...verbal warnings, tiny fines and then standards are often lowered to accommodate them.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 3:55 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3420764 

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    EcoGirl says...

    Maybe I should actually point something else out, just to be clear:

    1. PM2.5 is smoke-type particulate matter. Dust-type particulate matter is referred to as PM10.

    2. This facility, according to the application made to the MOE, would emit PM2.5 at a rate of 2.1% (24-hour max. average) and 0.9% (annual max. average) of the background levels in Kamloops, as measured by the MOE.

    I belive noidear pointed out that space heating and residential wood heating combine to make up 17.2% of the background concentration of PM2.5. Which means this facility will contribute an additional 0.9%. MASSIVE! RUN! HIDE! OMG!

    Ridiculous. Want to make a difference? BAN BURNING!!!!! Better yet, ban road dust - it contributes 20.9%.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 2:29 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3420745 

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    EcoGirl says...

    Ibuprofen - I wan't aware that I had moved anywhere in the last several years... I don't even know where W. Kootenay Lake IS, for cripes sake! Your post makes no sense. I also don't recall ramming any "crap" down anyone's throats. And STFU? buddy, this is a forum for all users to state their opinions. STFU is a wee harsh, don't you think?

    I don't have a superiority complex, I have FACTS. It doesn't make me superior, it just makes me informed. If my facts make you feel inferior, I apologize. Here, I will even share them with you so you will feel better about yourself:

    One fact I have is that for PM2.5 (which I believe I saw referenced somewhere on this page) the facility is projected to emit a maximum predicted ground level concentration of 0.37 ug/m3 over a 24-hour period and 0.07 ug/m3 annually. The BC Ambient Air Quality Guidelines (BCAQG) are 25 ug/m3 and 6 ug/m3, respectively (if you assume the more stringent proposed annual guideline). So that means it is proposed to emit at 1.4% of the 24-hour guideline and 1.2% of the annual guideline. I should also point out that the dispersion models used to generate this data are very conservative (i.e., they overpredict). I have used the simple terrain modelling results, as the complex terrain modelling results were actually lower. By the way, the background concentrations for PM2.5, as provided by the MOE, are 17.4 ug/m3 (24-hour) and 7.86 ug/m3 (annually), which means the facility is proposed to emit at 2.1 % and 0.9 % of background concentrations, respectively.

    There, do you feel better now? Or would you like me to explain what these results mean in terms of contribution of PM2.5 to the airshed?

    There's even more data in the application to the MOE, provided you actually GO AND GET ONE AND DO THE RESEARCH.

    I am OUT.

    Posted on March 8, 2010 @ 2:18 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3420743 

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    mrssnuggles says...

    Great! The IHA says it's safe...these are the same people that say our surgical instruments are sterilized and safe!

    Posted on March 7, 2010 @ 8:42 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3413392 

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    menthelius says...

    "kamiloops" I don't like your links, sorry but I have a tough time getting them to work, nevertheless I did listen to the CBC interview with KS (typical CBC crap interview, don't address issues, don't ask hard questions, just "touchy-feeling" crap) and I appreciate your efforts in providing as much factual material as you can - keep up the good work, eh?

    Posted on March 5, 2010 @ 8:14 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3397029 

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    Darrell Ward says...

    Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this new plant they want to put in my community. All of these comments have really got me thinking about pollution...
    Now where did I put my smokes? Oh yeah, in my F-250 Diesel. I really should get that sucker tuned up one of these days... Takes so long to warm up. Maybe after I unload the bags of pesticide in the back. Ahhh, not right now. Just want to sit and enjoy this fire...

    Posted on March 5, 2010 @ 7:14 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3397012 

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    Kamiloops says...

    CDNranger - Try this. SaveKamloops.ca has lots of articles and MOE/ACC documents as well.

    http://savekamloops.ca/Docs/Creosote%20article.pdf

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 12:02 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3393201 

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    Moonriver says...

    Just go to cbc.ca and see "B.C. Pollution Tests kept under wraps" under B.C. news

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 11:53 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3393197 

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    Cdnranger says...

    Kamloops,

    That link does not work

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 11:27 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3393193 

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    Kamiloops says...

    MOE can make a permit as strict as they want truth his they dont have the resources to inforce it!

    B.C. pollution tests kept under wraps

    Extreme levels of a toxic chemical were found in air samples from a Prince George, B.C., neighbourhood more than 18 months ago, but the community still has not been told of the danger, CBC News has learned.

    Tests performed in the Millar Addition neighbourhood showed formaldehyde levels more than 18 times the acceptable level.

    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/03/03/bc-prince-george-formaldehyde-millar-addition.html#ixzz0hEch9dIo

    One of the Prince George tests was taken in Fort George Park, a popular playground and water park next to a children's science museum and daycare. The samples showed 1,200 micrograms of formaldehyde per cubic metre in a one-hour period.

    Another set of samples were taken a few blocks away at Patricia Boulevard and Taylor Drive, a residential street in middle-class Millar Addition, which is also near the Fraser River and the city's downtown. That test indicated 950 micrograms per cubic metre, also in a one-hour period.

    B.C.'s acceptable level is 65 micrograms per cubic metre.

    Re-testing in Prince George would cost between $6,000 and $12,000, but the government has not committed funding to the followup, Bilawchuk said.

    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/03/03/bc-prince-george-formaldehyde-millar-addition.html#ixzz0hEcolIMm

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 10:44 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3393182 

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    Kamiloops says...

    When the ties on in use and not disturbed they are not so bad it is after they are disturbed and stored for disposal that is the problem and I can the full report proving that if you like.

    Its in this

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V78-4SRVRK9-2&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F25%2F2008&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1231976809&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1868439eee105849f3f6f123439cc523

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 10:42 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3393181 

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    Cdnranger says...

    The concern about the the storage of the ties close to the river is silly. Do you have any idea how many ties are already lineing the banks of the river. What do you think is holding the miles of steel rails in place that snake through this city and beyond.

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 10:39 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3393180 

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    Moonriver says...

    Check out what's gone on on P.G.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/03/03/bc-prince-george-formaldehyde-millar-addition.html#socialcomments

    What does this story do for your confidence in industry and MOE?
    Pay attention Kamloops!

    Posted on March 4, 2010 @ 10:13 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3393177 

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    Kamiloops says...

    Needs a full comprehensive environmental assessment for so many reasons. They is a first for a gasifier to use rail ties for 100% of the fuel. For people that say oh it is done elsewhere they are wrong. Yes some cogen plants will mix in ties at a very small percentage, For 2008, railway ties accounted for 3.68% of total fuel material received at Epcor in Williams Lake. The EERC and ACC have said it is a first.

    The emissions are one aspect, don't forget they will have 3 to 4 acres of stored ties and chips only 400 yards from a Class A salmon river.

    CN Rail looks or interim used-tie storage areas that are NOT located near bodies of water yet CP wants to ship them to ACC to store and chip only 400 yards away from the river!

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/contaminants/psl1-lsp1/creosote/creosote_2-eng.php

    A study of water soluble leachates from out-of-service railway ties found many PAHs and associated compounds. One gram of wood was shaved from the surface of the railway ties and agitated in water for 24 hours. Up to 88.9 µg/L of naphthalene, 92.7 µg/L of dibenzofuran, 120 µg/L of fluorene, 119 µg/L of phenanthrene, and 58.9 µg/L of carbazole were found in the water. Other compounds were detected at lower concentrations (Rotard and Mailahn, 1987). Little other information is available to determine the leaching potential of creosote components remaining in creosote waste products.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BFW/is_1_98/ai_82134977/

    The issue of proper management of used crossties has been an ever-increasing challenge to CN over the past few years. The railroad supports many programs to offer a future disposal option for used ties. Meanwhile, CN is reusing as many ties as possible where operation integrity will not be compromised.

    The railroad is looking for interim used-tie storage areas that are not located near bodies of water.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 3:37 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3386643 

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    missprint says...

    I received a copy of the permit from the MOE when I wrote to Ministry of Environment – Environmental Management Section Head Jason Bourgeois as I'm sure anyone else who wrote voicing concerns did as well, therefore to suggest that only a dozen requests have come in for the information is inaccurate.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 2:35 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3386627 

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    Kamiloops says...

    Kim Sigurdson, Founder‎:Aboriginal Cogeneration - Jan 25 2010

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeJKxpr4y84

    Kim Sigurdson's answer to why he is building this Creosote Gasification Plant in Kamloops - CBC Radio

    Appalachians, are a vast system of mountains in eastern North America!

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 2:21 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3386621 

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    Moonriver says...

    Ben.
    I am only ONE INDIVIDUAL poster, who lives and pays taxes in Kamloops. Who/where are you and Eco-girl?

    Actually, CP rail owns 14,000 route miles of rail line! Again, why Kamloops in a populated valley prone to inversions?

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 11:41 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386569 

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    BenDover says...

    Moon...news flash...how many rail lines run up West Kootenay Lake ? (pay attention) Also, rail lines don't run "all over", they run along a limited number of specific paths of least resistance.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 11:29 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386566 

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    Moonriver says...

    Ben, news flash!...the rail line runs all through Canada and the U.S.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 11:20 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386565 

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    BenDover says...

    Chill...you might want to down a few of your screen namesakes. I guess it would make a lot of sense to truck ties into a remote spot rather than process them next to a rail line,minimize costs and not use a lot of diesel burning trucks tearing up the roads. Looking forward to seeing all you reasonable,rational people at the meeting and don't forget your rope.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 11:02 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386562 

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    Moonriver says...

    Thank you noidear. Unfortunately Aged you must seek out a lot of info on your own. Government, media and industry do not always freely offer important news and data (seldom offered in layman's terms) and will certainly not spoon feed us.
    Just look at The "freedom of information act' which is mired in red tape, high fees, and ridiculous waiting periods. Yes, Google is your friend.
    Also, thanks for the back up Ibuprofen. Good one.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 10:03 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386558 

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    ibuprofen says...

    EcoGirl,

    What’s wrong with NIMBY? Why are you using the term WE? You don’t live here. You’re not affected. Your superiority complex is annoying.

    If you’re truly passionate about the crap you’re ramming down other’s throat. Why don’t YOU put your money where your mouth is … Why don’t *YOU*, EcoGirl, lobby your ministry to relocate ACC’s new gasification plant next to W. Kootenay Lake? No? Not gonna do it...? So, you’re just big mouth with no substance?

    Then STFU!

    NIMBY

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 9:02 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386553 

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    noidear says...

    aged: I'm sure Moonriver assumed you've heard that Domtar has been given a second extension, until 2016, to half its emissions levels. If not, here's one link (I'm sure there are many sources of info available - Google is your friend):

    http://www.yourkamloops.com/2009/07/an-overview-of-the-domtar-air-quality-permit-amendment-issue.html

    "According to the US Environmental Protection Agency: " Health studies have shown a significant association between exposure to fine particles (PM 2.5) and premature death". As of the last BC Ministry of Environment survey done in 2000, Domtar emits 34.2 % of the PM 2.5 in the Kamloops airshed. Other sources included road dust (20.9%), space heating (11.3%) and residential wood heating (5.9%)."

    There has been good, open public consultation on the matter and most people are satisfied that progress is being made. While that may not be an ideal scenario, that's the way I perceive the situation. Burning more crap into the airshed is not going to be acceptable to many. NIMBY, indeed.

    Posted on March 3, 2010 @ 5:44 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3386525 

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    aged says...

    Something comes to mind, menthelius and others, ask yourself and I ask the same question. Why has the letter from the Mayor and Council opposing the cogeneeration project missing from print for the people of Kamloops to view by "Mr. I Like To Lead People To Water Person?"

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 11:42 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383206 

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    aged says...

    Please Moonriver be more specific. Will you not share with myself or the other readers your research sources? With the knowledge you hold will you at least tell me the pulp mill emission standards?

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 11:18 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383204 

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    Moonriver says...

    Aged: you can obtain information from the sources listed on my post, please read: MOE, ACC,save Kamloops, or please do you own research and share, educate yourself...you do own a computer...read a newspaper...
    Our air shed? Perhaps look out the window, you'll notice a large pulp mill that has been in town for many years, that has had 2 extensions, and has still not complied to meeting emission standards, plus vehicle emissions, other industry emissions, summer forest fires, there are many sources of pollutants. Some of us (prudently) do not want more.
    If they built it in an UNPOPULATED VALLEY prone to inversions, I don't think people would object.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 11:08 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383203 

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    menthelius says...

    Due to unrelated posts, I said (aside) that I would not be commenting for a couple of days, but this is really GOOD!

    "bendover" I fully agree with you!
    "aged" I hear everything you're saying and WOW some of it is really, really impressive! (and yeah I gotta go to bed soon if I want some sleep)

    "moonriver" yeah I know, I got my WHMIS and I've worked in plants with over 30000 other toxic chemicals! That's the major question I want answered too, WHY on the river inside city-limits?

    I'm all for new/green technology! Especially ones that bring more jobs to my community, and I say "my community" with some pride; although only a "native" of Kamloops for the past 10 yrs, I moved my family out of Vanc for all the smog/pollution/etc and the risks to their health! My family has been happy here and we love the FRESH AIR, none of us want to see more heavy/polluting industry! NOT at that price!

    But I have got to run before the crazies catch up to me...

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 10:51 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383202 

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    aged says...

    Conversions are prone to unpopulated areas as well. Please Moonriver educate me and all readers as to what is placing an excessive burden upon our airshed and where you are getting that information because I would like to follow up on it. Thanx.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 10:44 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383201 

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    Moonriver says...

    Creosote contains ove 200 chemicals, many of which are carcinogenic.
    We need to find safe ways to dispose of our toxic waste, I do not see this as an answer, given the location. Acc stands to make a very substantial amount of money, let's be clear, this is their motive, and of no value to Kamloops.

    Again, the question no one will answer:
    why can this experimental plant not be built away from a populated valley that already has an over-burdened air shed and is prone to conversions?
    Anybody....??? This would solve the controversy, yet no one will answer. ACC??? MLAs??? MOE???

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 10:29 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383200 

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    aged says...

    My interest peaked fully while watching a replay of the Council meeting Feb. 9th I believe. Dennis Walsh motioned to ban slash burning within city limits citing it hypocritical banning backyard cooking fires and not banning the other. Noble effort, yet he was ill prepared for the "thinking on his feet" lawyer John O'Fee who pepperd Dennis with excuses to find banning these fires unexceptable.

    Those slash piles were likely placed by a Cat 988 and hence can be removed by the same machine.

    Domtar can only bring in a limited amount of waste wood to gasify and by no means will hauling city wood waste (or biomass)to Domtar benifit the pocket book of the City.

    Waste wood is a for profit venture.

    From 2004 to 2008 there was over 600,000 cubic meters of waste wood on the ground within the Kamloops Forest District and over a span of 5 years there were many piles of slash that were burned unseen by the public eye.

    With the potential of a new cogeneration plant the opportunity to collect this waste for proper disposal will bring 2 railroads, logging and trucking companies, entrepreneurs, Local and Provincial Governments, Unions and individuals together to promote healthy forest stewardship. We cannot allow the practicce of slash burning when we as a race counter Mother Nature with our presence.

    Now to railroad ties. What I know from bucking a tie in half is that the creosote does not saturate the wood to the core. Try it and you will see the same result.

    "What happens if something goes wrong?" is a question I've seen printed more than once and I can only suspect the plant will shut down the process will be carefuly scrutinized, corrected and continue.

    We will not die suddenly in the early stages of start-up, our children will grow knowing they will have a healthy and prosperous life ahead of them and destroying these ties in a manner suitable to the time is the only way. Can any one find another way? Lets get this over with, here, now, and do it quick because the sooner we correct our mistakes as a race the longer our race lives on.

    There it is, in a nutshell why I support cogeneration.

    BTW Mr. Dean Jeske informed me 9 requests for a copy of the ACC permit were handled today. Educate yourself, educate others. Thank-you and good night!

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 9:54 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383197 

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    Moonriver says...

    Most people I know that oppose the plant have read information from all sides including MOE, ACC and save kamloops. Plus attended public forums. Unfortunately ACC has been less than forthcoming. Hopefully they will answer some questions they have refused to on March 11th. It is easy to make childish cries of "Nimby" when you do not live in the community at risk and remain anonamous, very convenient "Eco-Girl". The question of "Why Kamloops" is valid and should be answered. "Why not?" is a very weak response. We live here, our loved ones live here. Last time I checked the railroad runs all through North America! LOL! Hardly an answer. I think it may have more to do with Bill 30 and the Liberal Governments push for Private power at all costs. But they won't talk about bill 30 either. Many people take exception with lax government regulations and emissions standards(testing 4 times per year is hardly stringent and neither is self regulation) they also take exception at the erosion of the democratic process. It is also a valid question to ask "of what benefit is this to our community? And what are the risks" It is Naive and negligent not to ask these questions. Those in favor and ACC have given us no positives.
    EnCana near Dawson was just told by MOE they should have built a high stack instead of a low stack and would have to change it. This took 4 years. Meanwhile residents could not use the outdoors or their yards due to the stench of sour gas. People were suffering from headaches and asthma. The government told the people it was no big deal "only a lifestyle issue." could something similar happen here? Attend all forums and read all available literature and make a educated decision. Think critically.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 9:41 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3383196 

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    BenDover says...

    No kidding...a coffee shop doesn't have to put up with anything near what this has. The fact that the plant is located on a "RAIL" line (you know, the ones that use the ties that they want to process and the word should be PROCESS, not BURN), will keep transportation costs down,for one thing. There's another thing, people seem to think this plant will be a cross between Chernobyl and an asbestos factory. Maybe some of you people should actually go to the meeting, ask questions and consider that the MOE and IHA haven't just routinely rubber-stamped a project without any thought about what they are doing. Isn't this what we PAY them to do ?

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 5:57 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3380181 

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    menthelius says...

    I read your comments with interest "ecogirl", all I can say is that there is a great difference betweeen someone wanting to set up a coffee shop and someone wanting to set up an industrial complex.

    I'm all for new industry/jobs, but NOT at any price, I have to think about my wife and children and the consequences towards their health if anything goes wrong with ACC's proposed plant.

    I still wonder WHY ACC feels that they have to establish their business in downtown Kamloops along the river. Is that the only suitable site? Are there GOOD REASONS behind ACC's plans? I think I owe my family the answers to these questions at the very least!

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 2:20 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3379384 

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    BenDover says...

    Well put, Ecogirl. I am not "for " or "against" this plant. I think the company has already jumped through a LOT of hoops. More than others have to. I don't like seeing anyone demonized and bullied by people who don't want to reason, OK ? I don't like scare tactics, fear-mongering, exaggerations and half-truths put out by opponents of ANY project. I AM for a fair and equitable process and if that has taken place ,I would have no problem living near OR working at such a place. You opponents WANTED a meeting and you will have one. Hopefully it won't turn into a gong show.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 12:48 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3379373 

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    EcoGirl says...

    And in addition, why are we not scrutinizing ALL new business application in Kamloops? Why are we not asking ALL new businesses - "hey, what's in it for US? Provide us with a detailed rationale as to the pros and cons of why we should allow you to set up shop here. Why should we let you do business here?"

    Why? Because it's discriminatory. That's why there are rules that all businesses must follow so everyone is subject to the same standards.

    If a business wishes to set up shop, they must meet the zoning requirements of the spot they wish to set up at, meet any permit requirements, etc. etc. If they have done that, they should be allowed to operate. If you don't like the rules that they operate under, take that up with the ones who make the rules, not with the ones that are following them. I applaud those who have sought out the facts surrounding the ACC facility - if you've done that and you do not agree with the permitted levels and have issues with that, then take your case to the goverment. For those of you who insist on crucifying ACC for following the rules, I don't know what to say to you - you obviously don't get it. You can't change the rules, so you're next tactic is to run the business out of town or make life so unbearable for them that they leave? Nice. Very civilized. What is this, the wild west???

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 12:18 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3379369 

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    EcoGirl says...

    Why here? Why us? Why me? WHY NOT?

    NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 12:09 pm PST | Report post to Editor | 3379368 

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    menthelius says...

    Economic growth (to a point) is a good thing, new workplaces and job creation is a good thing, new and innovative green-technologies is a good thing.

    What are the risks if things do not work out? That would be my main concern, as well as, what steps are in place to avoid severe health risks if the experiment fails.

    I would also question WHY does ACC have to set up operations within the city and along the river? Would a location just outside of town be better? What are the reasons ACC have to want to set up inside the city limits?

    Just a few thoughts.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 10:07 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379339 

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    aged says...

    noidear, I will gladly take you up on that offer. However, at this time I must rise from my armchair, not without effort and go out and lead my superhero life as a civilian. In other words, I gotta go to work!

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 9:12 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379328 

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    noidear says...

    I should say, just curious and trying to be open-minded.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 8:58 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379325 

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    noidear says...

    So, I've been reading the pro-arguments here for quite a while, but one thing I seem to have missed is why you guys want ACC to set up house here in Kamloops? Or are you just against the process that is taking place? Do you have a vested interest or is it the underdog mentality? How is it going to benefit you? We've heard how it's NOT going to benefit "us", I'll even give you this - how WE BELIEVE this unproven technology isn't going to benefit us health-wise, but what are the benefits (to us) otherwise? What besides risk are we allowing in? Not trying to be inflammatory, just curious.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 8:57 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379324 

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    aged says...

    No more than half a dozen? Now one more. Quick response too. The time from request to delivery was about half an hour.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 8:41 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379321 

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    Grouchy says...

    Sigh......if only this were a perfect world. I agree with Ben.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 8:09 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379313 

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    BenDover says...

    A nice sentiment, Mr. T, but a lot of these people don't want to hear the facts, they just want to "hang" someone.

    Posted on March 2, 2010 @ 7:38 am PST | Report post to Editor | 3379305 

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